these nsa programs are extremely unpopular in europe, too. it's caused tension between some of the united states' closest allies. it goes beyond russia. obviously, this is the near-term issue we expect to hear the president sort of justify his reasoning of not doing this -- of deciding to skip this summit. it is fascinating now. he's announcing a whole bunch of reforms based on documents that were released by edward snowden. they're announcing all of these new reforms. okay. now we've canceled a summit. at some point over russia's refusal to turn edward snowden over, but it's clear they're also sort of sheepish in deciding they do need a new policy. so was it really -- then should they be cancelling summits over this issue? i think that's going to be another question the president is going to have to deal with. >> have you heard anything about the lower-level meetings taking place between secretary kerry and hagel and their russian counterparts today and if that's helping to mend any of the fi fissures? >> well, they are supposedly -- and the